Don't like the sound of custom parallel condensor. The difference between the two is about 10,000 btu/h. I don't know where it is getting the switch off command, or why the vent temp drops steadily. Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. The exact amount will vary with each car. Typically 5 to 6 ounces of a/c oil is adequate but this may vary depending upon the car. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. You'll get marginally better performance out of the change as the expansion valve is matches the refrigerant characteristics. R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? An orifice tube is just a fixed nozzle that pisses refrigerant into the evaporator without any sort of feedback. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. Its highest value is 1. R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. R134a requires a different oil. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. we convert older systems where i work all the time and they work fine. of refrigerant insulation tape. That switch should close @ 52c. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). He started writing automotive articles to share his garage experience with car enthusiasts and armature mechanics. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. Shorting the plug for the refrigerant switch should run the fan when the compressor is on. Usually, mechanics charge around $200 for conversion. As per their results . This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. These differences in the valve size can be attributed to the correlation of the cooling capacity with the enthalpy difference and the mass flow, which in . In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. Agram a retevis rt22 password i bastrop county district clerk records el material que oferim als nostres webs. Bookmarks: Digg; del . July 3, 2022July 3, 2022. and feeds it through an expansion valve. R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. Compressor. Environmental Impact: When R134a escapes into the atmosphere, it contributes to global warming. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. But, what is considered a good temperature differential across the condensor? The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. 4.R404A R134a increased mass transfer resistance to reduce the transmission chamber heat coefficient, while R507 heat transfer coefficient is higher than R404A. Only show this user. A thermostatic expansion valve (TXV) (see Figure 1) is a refrigeration and air conditioning throttling device that controls the amount of refrigerant liquid injected into a system's evaporatorbased on the evaporator outlet temperature and pressurecalled the superheat. Expansion valves are an active device, they regulate the flow of refrigerant to the evaporator depending on evaporator temperature. It is common for eurocar threads to go multiple pages, and as Nick points out - sometimes cool is all you will ever get. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. It won't be optimal, though. Since there is only about a 10% difference between R-12 and R-134a, the expansion valve being self-compensating really doesn't make that much difference. When I compare parts, 93 uses one part number and 94 has a different part number. On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. Gnats & mosquitos will clog deep. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. I'm thinking I might have put too much oil in the system - everywhere i read had a different amount - the manufacturer of the compressor, the MB factory service manual, online forums. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. PDF COMPARISON OF Rl34a AND R12 REFRIGERANTS IN A VAPOUR - AIVC Paul:It is never a waste of my time to chat with someone that understands the problem, and wants to fix it. R-12 to R-134a Conversion. At 2000rpm, windows open, highest fan, hi pressure stabilized at 225 psi, low 25psi.Ambient 81F, vent 61F. The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. If not, you just don't know unless a test is performed. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesn't dissolve in R134a. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . In short, NO! difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve So you could likely put off buying those new hoses just a bit longer if you wanted. Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. Look at where the lines will end up. The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Crap! I've done the FSM test and with 81F ambient, the vent should be 50F. 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. Expansion Valve Differences R12 vs R134 - Automotive Air Conditioning Thomas Jefferson, Thanks,OK, I'm starting to feel a little better about it. I'll put the relay on for that. It cycles on off in med (or low for that matter)Gotta tell ya. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. Have a look in the FAQ Section, and look for "Fan clutches & testing them". If your cars system has a sufficient condenser design and air flow to expel the greater amount of heat extracted by R134a, then by all means you should convert over when the time comes. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. Until 1995, most cars with air conditioning used R-12 Freon refrigerant which has shown to have an environmental impact. Once you have replaced the OEM condensor with a PF unit, you will need to make custom hoses to mate with your OEM system. Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. So the steps involved are cleaning out the old oil, replacing all the O-rings, replacing the dryer, replacing the expansion valve, and converting the high and low side connectors from Schrader to quick connect valves. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! The crossover point is approximately at 64F. 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. Just had knee surgery yesterday, so I"M not exactly hopping around too well. Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. R134a requires the use of synthetic oil! ThanksPaul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. That is a good thing. Most importantly, the oil used in the plant must always be compatible with the refrigerant used. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. It is also used in automotive car conditioning and the plastic industry. And yes - expansion valves sometimes need replacing if they are sticky - but a proper AC flush should eliminate the need for a new one if it's already in good condition. ). Since then, the industry standard has been R134a, which is an efficient replacement. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. I bought a relay to put on it connected to the compressor clutch. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. Still, I have some simple green, so may as well give it a go. Or is there always room for improvement, the more the merrier. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. Can I use the one for the R-12? About four or five years ago, I guy with an MB came here with the same problem, that tread was over six pages long. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. system of 0.33 TR and refrigerant used was R12. Electric fans do wear out. Big . Use a strong surfactant like Simple Green or Zep Citrus, and soak the fins on the condensor. Even if the system leaks, repairing the leaks and recharging it with R-12 is usually the best repair alternative. An extra half ounce? As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. Get to the point where I can walk without crutches2. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). SO here's my question. The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. Break out the new gauges and measure hi and lo at 1500rpm, and do the Merc FSM test to see how we're doing performance wise. The aux fan seems to be working fine - it switches on occassionally. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. Yes, the 50F diff (160-110F) on the condenser was at idle, and ambient was about 90F. Stopleak is also risky. . For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. I have some experience with auto a/c but not too much. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. It does not "pool" to any degree in a large amount anywhere. So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. But with an R4, better too much than too little.3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12.4) The airflow across the condensor is crucial to good performance. How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance. Heres some important advice Whenever you notice your R12 refrigerant is leaking, turn off all flames and open the doors so it can escape to the open atmosphere. The problem with these so called drop in replacements is that to properly handle them you may need dedicated equipment to identify the gas and evacuate it for proper disposal. I had to vaccum the system for 2 hours and recharge 4 oz of PAG oil plus 36 oz of 134A freon (3 cans). difference between r12 and r134a expansion valvewarning signs for a deteriorating patient with covid 19 infection 2022.07.03 18:36 18:36 R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? Some cars have both an engine coolant temp switch & a refrigerant temp switch, others only the refrigerant switch. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. They should be able to keep you comfortable on a long trip, but don't expect vent frost in 3 minutes or lesss.2) Too much oil can reduce cooling capacity, and the effect is not linear. Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve might be due to charge or different compressor and age. Though I have seen em run as cold as 12 deg F. If the thermo switch is malfunctioning. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. . However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. There is more to check.The evaporator must be clean as well as the condensor - was this a smoker's car?You should check the water control valve for the heater core. A York oil capacity is listed as "6.5 to 9.6 ounces". R404a is a zeotropic blend with a temp glide , because of the mixture of 2 or more refrigerants. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). A lower GWP alternative to R-134a had to be found and thus we have the new 1234yf. Helical and Serpentine coils. I don't want to be chasing ghosts. Trinary Pressure Switch quantity. Comparatively, larger R134a molecules should take more space, and a smaller amount might be required. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. Bookmarks: Digg; del . Inasmuch as R134a has a global warming potential thats over 1000 times more threatening than carbon dioxide, its better than R12. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. Use a drop light in the engine bay, and check the air path from the front of the car at night. R12, on the other hand, has an ozone depletion potential of 1, implying that it can damage the ozone layer. The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. It runs between the condenser outlet, receiver/drier unit and expansion valve at the firewall. Can I use the one for the R-12? Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. They plug all the time. There are other refrigerants: some of which may work, some of which dont work, some of which will destroy your a/c system and some of which are dangerous. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. 2) Frost on the Vents. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. R134a Expansion valve different from R12? - Automotive Air Conditioning The ratings for evaporator temperatures 40F, 20F, -10F, -40F in the capacity tables are in accordance with ANSI/ARI = R134a Charge Level R12 Expansion Valve = 201 830 06 84 R134A Expansion Valve = 201 830 04 84 Is there a difference after all? Refrigerators generally utilize R22, R32, or 410A-based coolants as their cooling agent. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. You may need to adjust the valve in a bit to get desired superheat. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. I'm also thinking maybe I should go to R134 - it might work better with the right amount of oil and the correct expansion valve. Interestingly, theres one oil type that works perfectly with both types of refrigerants. Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. Not going to mess up your 'do, but you can feel it. With tube & fin condensors in MVAC applications there is never "too much" airflow. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. I have one can left, so maybe a plan can be made. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . The larger fitting goes on the discharge port and the smaller fitting goes on the suction line or compressor inlet / suction port. Neuro spine Super Speciality Clinic - Above Apollo Pharmacy, Bangarpet Circle, Kolar - Bangarpet Road, Kolar Town. Biggest you can fit in there is best. 3) A/C Compressor Always On. The problem with not being an expert is that you don't know what is important and what's not. Stability: RR12 doesnt disintegrate even under extreme operating conditions. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. The flammables have hydrocarbons. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system.
How Much Is Membership At Wilshire Country Club?,
List Of Black Generals In The Military,
Geny Gagnant En Ordre Burkina,
Articles D