It was withdrawn the same year as FS and scrapped. And also with the German Witte deflectors without these, the engine takes on an unbalanced look dont forget they are there for important smoke clearing properties. There is a whole other story about changes in appearance during private ownership: red backed painted nameplates, green cylinder covers, double tenders, LNER coats of arms cab side, cowcatchers, bells, different identities for the film Agatha (1978), the A3 boiler being replaced with an A4 example, and the locomotive appearing in a hybrid BR-LNER form with smoke deflectors and double chimney. Discover the story of pioneering engineering minds who pushed new locomotive technology to its limits. This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies. The train will spend the rest of 2023 travelling across the country to allow as many people as possible to see it. [47] Despite a hopeful start complaints from businesses along the route ended the trips, and the train had to relocate to a less accessible yard, causing a 90% reduction of income. You are reading The locomotive was repaired again in the early 1990s, at which time pop impresario Pete Waterman formed a short-lived partnership with Sir William to run the locomotive. But who took on the hard graft of building them? [58] The same journey also saw Flying Scotsman set its own haulage record when it took a 735-ton train over the 790-kilometre (490mi) leg between Tarcoola and Alice Springs. Who would imagine a bunch of crazy nostalgic nerds would actually do such a thing? by Paul B Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:11 pm, Post I believe the only time there was a problem was during the big freeze of 1963(?) However, by the end of 2005 the intermediate repairs failed to improve the situation and the NRM decided to proceed with the general overhaul.[73]. While I appreciate the reasoning, I cant help thinking how much better she would look in iconic LNER Apple Green and without the Witte Smoke Deflectors. The wings are smoke deflectors. One famous locomotive, many different get-upshow should Flying Scotsman look? I heard many years ago that it was because BR classified it as an item of coaching stock, so it had to be blue and grey. We all know the Flying Scotsman for what it is and thats a true iconic locomotive. I found a good a picture of it behind Bittern if anyone cares to look. 60103, is the most accurate paint and number for the locomotives current build, but everyone (or at least, nearly everyone) recognises Flying Scotsman in LNER Apple Green, 4472. it is the most iconic livery for the engine, (probably helped by the models using that livery) so if Alan Pegler could paint her in LNER colours, because people know those colours, why cant the NRM? Ive seen photos that show polished rims in the mid 30s, however a late 30s looks like it may have painted rimsno black thoughits impossible to see in the photo whether it had a fine white line around the rim.. My ignorance is great so forgive me for some basic questions and any errors in what I 'know'. After the war, it became green againand was rebuilt as an A3 Pacific. Hornby marketed two versions of Flying Scotsman in N scale British locomotives made by Minitrix for several years from 1977 as Hornby Minitrix. He found that there were insufficient coaling and water facilities (including water troughs) due to the politicos indecent haste to "modernise" the railways. The high points of her legendary life were in these colours, when in the LNER she was a symbol and broke records. Your email address will not be published. Perhaps you should buy one then you can paint it whatever colour you like. [81] The final cost of the restoration amounted to 4.2 million, having risen by a 300,000 estimate in the summer of 2015 in order to finish the necessary additional work before the deadline. Flying Scotsman ran with its corridor tender until October 1936, after which it reverted to the original type. This change made a noticeable difference to the locomotives appearance as did the replacement of the rounded steam collector dome with the more elongated banjo dome (so called because it resembled the shape of a banjo). For all those saying that the FS should have been this or that, John Roberts comment sums it all up. by byegad Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:24 pm, Post An engineer operates the controls on the footplates of the Flying Scotsman, Flying Scotsman arrives at King's Cross Station after it became the first steam locomotive to officially pass 100mph in 1934, The National Railway Museum maintains the train, Flying Scotsman goes down under as it prepares to travel from Sydney to Perth, Flying Scotsman's final trip in 1963 before entering an active retirement, The locomotive continued to tour the UK despite leaving LNER. What I cant abide is the German blinkers (smoke deflectors). The NRMs usual aim is to commemorate locomotives from their time in public service, but Flying Scotsman is not a usual case, she has spent more time in private ownership as an Apple Green Gresley A3 Pacific with the No.4472, where she continued to add to her legend, THAT part of her history cannot be dismissed and is certainly more worthy of being commemorated than her time under the ownership of BR. I would get home and my mum used to ask me if I had been playing near to the trains, but of course she knew I had cos I smelt of sulphur !! Alan Pegler was forced into bankruptcy andScotsman was stranded in the USA. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Our blog takes you behind the scenes at the National Railway Museum, from how we care for our world-class collections and the latest discoveries from our archives to what we've got planned for the future. Alan Pegler had it painted that colour in private ownership as an homage to the loco he remembered seeing as a child. Poet laureate Simon Armitage read out a poem called The Making Of The Flying Scotsman to celebrate its 100th anniversary year. With Alan Pegler retaining left hand drive the locomotive, although numbered 4472 and in LNER colours, showed noticeable differences in appearance from its classic LNER look (when it was still an A1). Flying Scotsman's second tender is a standard LNER corridor tender when it should be an auxiliary water tender. If they wanted smoke deflectors, why didnt they choose a design similar to the A1 Peppercorn class or the Coronation Class. Her time under BR was probably the lowest and unremarkable time of her career, furthermore BR nearly scrapped her and when she was saved they did everything they could to get her off their rails. Awdry. We have a Doncaster bus that visitors think is a London bus as it is red, we need to educate people not just placate them. Leeman Road BBC News. Coincidentally, I yesterday read an article in British Railways Illustrated describing a run by A4 No. Its visit to Perth saw a reunion with GWR 4079 Pendennis Castle, which had been exhibited alongside Flying Scotsman at the 1924 British Empire Exhibition. In the 3rd edition (1976) of an Ian Allan book about Flying Scotsman there's a chapter by Alan Pegleri himself. Does anyone know what happened to Flying Scotsman's second tender? [24][48] Pegler worked his passage home on a P&O cruise ship, which led to a seven-year career as a cruise entertainer giving lectures about trains and travel and enabled him to discharge himself from bankruptcy.[49]. Flying Scotsman has the tender off 60034 Lord Faringdon as it only had a Non Corridor tender in BR days and they swapped them. Comment The Flying Scotsman is celebrating its 100th birthday this year with a series of special events around the UK. It entered service on 24 February 1923, carrying the GNR number of 1472 as the LNER had not yet decided on a system-wide numbering scheme. Blue and gray https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/16436358358. A whistle code was used to advise the signalman that a train needed to stop at the next watering "hole", this was one long and three short whistles. The important thing is the DNA behind the name plate. That is not actually true, Flying Scotsman became an A3 one year before BR was formed and it was very much still in its apple green livery and even remained in it sometime after nationalisation while it was still in service, they just replaced the letters LNER on the tender with BRITISH RAILWAYS; In March 1948, though retaining LNER apple green livery, but with BRITISH RAILWAYS painted on its tender. Sharpe, Brian, Flying Scotsman A Legend Reborn (Lincolnshire: Mortons Media Group Ltd, 2016) 4472 "Flying Scotsman" - first run with double tender - YouTube It remained this colour until1963, when it was retired by British Rail. Any info would be appreciated. The current BR restoration is actually the only one of its many guises which is authentic. All her achievements happened while in the Apple Green livery, BOTH while in service and in private ownership, that must be acknowledged. Restoring the piece of Britain's railway history cost 4.5 million, writes James S. Baldwin for The History Press. [24][25] Pegler bought the locomotive for 3,500 with the political support of Prime Minister Harold Wilson. It completed the run on a subsequent attempt. This article is about the locomotive. Flying Scotsman 2023 centenary tour: Where to see the world famous It would make her so much more recognisable to the casual observer and particularly all those children of all ages with a Hornby Flying Scotsman. The Flying Scotsman is going on tour - here's what happened when it LOCO. Comment. There was really no need for two tenders in the days of steam, there were abundant water troughs and/or water columns on practically all routes and this worked quite well. The 97-tonne locomotive was designed by Edinburgh-born Sir Nigel Gresley and built in Doncaster. as this,,, would one be clothed in the same clothing every single day,,,, ta ta for now,,, McAlpine paid for its restoration at Derby Works and two subsequent overhauls in the 23 years that he owned and ran it. I agree with earlier posts Flying Scotsman feels right in Apple Green and numbered 4472. The Flying Scotsman we see now is a completely different locomotive from the one built in 1923. The spare tender used on Flying Scotsman was bought for use by the A1 Trust on Tornado, but was not subsequently used. [19][20] On 4 June 1950, now under British Railways ownership, Flying Scotsman was allocated to its new base at Leicester Central on the Great Central Railway, running passenger services to and from London Marylebone, London St Pancras, Leicester, Sheffield, and Manchester. Carl. Indeed, there would be some debate about what is its classic LNER appearance: when it first appeared in 1923 it was numbered 1472 with a much smaller tender emblazoned with the letters L&NER. It was converted back to single-chimney condition and repainted in LNERlivery. Sydneys trams were always known and called Types i.e. In January 1963, Alan Pegler bought Flying Scotsman. He went out to look for the train but did not return and they found his body in pieces on the track the next day. The Flying Scotsman as seen on carried name plates ? 24 February 2023 marks 100 years since Flying Scotsman entered service. From around 1968 the Deltics were modified so that the fuel capacity was reduced and the water capacity was increased to make possible the lifting out of the remaining water troughs on the ECML. In February 1996 businessman Tony Marchington bought Scotsman outright for 1.25 million. I hope this answers your questions. Businessman and railway enthusiast Alan Pegler stepped in, having seen the locomotive as a boy at the British Empire Exhibition and received 70,000 in 1961 for his shareholding in the Northern Rubber Company when it was sold to Pegler's Valves, a company started by his grandfather. I have no idea what they were doing there, perhaps running maintenance or something, but it was a buzz to scratch them off the list in our I-spy railway locomotives or some such book. TR Williamsons in Ripon supplied the original LNER Apple Green and they kindly donated exactly the same paint for its livery. Furthermore, Roland estimated that it would need 15,000 gallons to reach Broken Hill, three times the capacity of the 5,000-gallon tender. BUT look, I do go soft when watching tv documentaries on the Flying Scotsman. window.dfp_ad_id = '/21784358039/RW_Web_Forum/RW_Web_Forum_UK_Prototype'; By It probably would have been easier good wise words, hence Jupiter. It never carried the number 4472 as an A3. LNER passenger locomotives had always been painted Apple Green. Micah - With 'Increased Explosiveness!' - Re-Joins Cowboys for OTAs This repainting of these famous A3 and A4 locos in BR shades with BR numbers is a great disappointment. Flying Scotsman was in service throughout the golden age of rail. In 2016, Flying Scotsman was the subject of two television documentaries. Flying Scotsman during the Second World War Who owns Flying Scotsman? The change of number was part of the British Rail numbering scheme. 10th July, 1933. [57] On 8 August 1989 Flying Scotsman set another record en route to Alice Springs from Melbourne, travelling 679 kilometres (422mi) from Parkes to Broken Hill non-stop, the longest such run by a steam locomotive ever recorded. The frames were sent to Darlington for use with Tornado but were then sold to Tony Marchington to become a second tender for both Bittern and Scotsman.It was then sold for use with Bittern where it now resides via a short stint painted maroon for use with Duchess of Sutherland probably behind more locos in preservation than it was in steam days. I was talking to John Cameron last Saturday and he told me that the tender that is behind Union is off of 60004 ( the rarest of all dahn sarf).This was done at the suggestion of the fitter at Ferryhill, who considered it to be the best one available. Enjoy the days of your lives. I sandblasted and primed this icon during its restoration in 2006. In a blaze of publicity, Flying Scotsman ran its last train for British Railways on 14 January 1963. You can do things like that when you own your own steam locomotive. I think Flying Scotsman should always return to the LNER Apple Green livery. Very disappointing to hear it will not be taking on 4472 the only number I have ever known. ???? Its not Apple Green. Slightly off topic, but I hope of interest here (and if you already know this then I apologie!) What did local people make of the radical new technology changing the face of their landscape? What happened to Flying Scotsman's second tender? Gresley disliked smoke-deflectors. We often saw engines that would not normally be seen in our neck of the woods. [67], Flying Scotsman's first run following the works was on 4 July 1999, hauling The Inaugural Scotsman from London King's Cross to York, where an estimated one million people turned out to see it. In 1969 Flying Scotsman headed tothe United States on a tour intended to promote British exports. Henry's face is loose when he complains about always working hard enough for two tenders. I find it insulting to Gresley, the LNER and enthusiasts of FLYING SCOTSMAN (not just A3 pacifics) to keep her out of the Livery that she is known for, for the sake of being historically accurate. Trackside Classic: 1923 LNER A3 Class Pacific No 4472 Flying Scotsman Private ownership and a non service livery are part of the FS fame and its story. The event attracted considerable media interest. [65] It received an upgraded 250 psi boiler originally made for a Class A4; its vacuum brakes replaced with an air type; its livery repainted in LNER Apple Green; the smoke deflectors removed; the double chimney restored; and renumbered 4472. People who get things wrong can be excused however, organisations which are responsible for the preservation of things are not allowed to get this wrong. ). by Paul B Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:00 pm, Post You are correct sir. [94] A collectable 2 coin was produced by the Royal Mint, some of which were in colour inspired by the locomotive's Apple Green livery, which marked the first colour coin produced in over 20 years. I wonder what Sir Nigel Gresley woulds have to say about it if he was here to day? [77] In May 2011, Flying Scotsman was unveiled on the museum's turntable, finished in wartime black LNER livery; after final tests, it was to be painted LNER Apple Green and have it running excursions by the summer. In her lifetime Flying Scotsman has had three classes (A1, A10 and A3), four colours, six numbers, nine different tenders and at least fifteen different boilers. When Henry bangs the trucks, one bounces upwards. The many guises of Flying Scotsman - National Railway Museum blog If youre going to quote facts then get them right. Often we would jump up onto the bridge parapet and hang on as the train passed, engulfed in hot steam and coal smoke. It was 4472 then I am sure , but I was but a mere young lad at the time, if I find the pictures I will forward to you. Just over half a century ago, the world's best-loved steam engine was destined for scrap. I have a Flying Scotsman name plate which has gold letters on a green background. [42] A non-stop return journey was made three days later. As part of the deal, Pegler negotiated a complete overhaul of the locomotive. As the restoration process came to an end, all eyes were once againtrained on the worlds most famous locomotive. During the course of the next year Flying Scotsman travelled more than 45,000 kilometres (28,000mi) over Australian rails, concluding with a return transcontinental run from Sydney to Perth via Alice Springs, in which it became the first steam locomotive to travel on the recently built standard gauge line to Alice Springs. [4] Designed by Nigel Gresley, the A1s were built to haul mainline and later express passenger trains and following the GNR's absorption into the London and North Eastern Railway (LNER) after the amalgamation of 1923, became a standard design. Water was replenished from the water trough system several times en route. All the leading coaches are BR Mk1s. Can anyone suggest where, when or why this colour combination was used. Read more about Flying Scotsman history and thelatest restoration updates. York YO26 4XJ. [73] By 2009, with further problems encountered including misaligned frames and a cracked cylinder, plus rising metal prices, the museum launched the SOS ("Save Our Scotsman") appeal, seeking to raise a further 250,000 with the aim of completing the work by the end of the year. [73][76] The works were on view for visitors at the NRM, but the engine was rapidly dismantled to such an extent that the running plate was the only component recognisable to the casual observer. [45][25] Despite a successful start the tour ran into problems as strict anti-steam laws in some states deemed the engine a fire hazard, and either denied permission to run or required the train to be towed by a diesel or electric locomotive. Andrew is the National Railway Museum's Assistant Director and Head Curator, responsible for storing, conserving and bringing to life our collection items. When Henry apologises to Duck, his left eye (viewers' right) moves on its own a couple times. It is the only one of the class that has been preserved to the present day. Gresley had trialled double chimneys on his A3 class before the war and BR seeing the advantage these brought in terms of efficiency fitted them to all of the A3 class. [87], In October 2018, six years after Pegler's death, it hauled the Farewell Alan Pegler special from King's Cross to York, organised at the request of his daughter. [24], In 1972, Flying Scotsman earned money running passenger trips on the San Francisco Belt Railroad and was put on show at Fisherman's Wharf. [64] He spent a further 1million on the locomotive's subsequent overhaul to mainline running condition, which lasted three years and at that point, the most extensive in its history. A driver and fireman were able to access the locomotive from the train through a narrow passageway inside the tender tank plus a flexible bellows connection linking it with the leading coach. (B165) 4472 Flying Scotsman with second tender & brakevan at Kings Cross. by richard Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:27 pm, Post 1948 when the ECML was cut due to flooding and the non stops had to take the long and hard way round via the Waverley and the St Boswells - Tweedmouth route Haymarket crews found that by careful husbanding of water it was still possibile to run non stop Edinburgh to London by topping up at Lucker in the North East region between Tweedmouth and Alnmouth. After all there was no reason. 4472 complete with banjo dome, double chimney and smoke deflectors! [72] Flying Scotsman plc CEO Peter Butler announced losses of 474,619, and with a 1.5million overdraft at Barclays Bank, stated that the company only had enough cash to trade until April 2004. Hi interested in the area served by 52D. (B165) 4472 Flying Scotsman with second tender & brakevan - Flickr Im with you. Donald Diesel Sir Topham Hatt Flying Scotsman (not named; tenders and cab only; does not speak) Thomas (cameo) Edward (cameo) Percy (cameo) Annie and Clarabel (cameo) Bertie (cameo) Jem Cole (cameo) ", The Poet Laureate marks 100 years of the Flying Scotsman with a new poem. http://skysearchslocogallery.fotopic.net/p67733948.html. I endorse Sir Vistos comments the only possible scenario prior to Scotsman was when redundant tenders were used as water carriers at certain locations and may have been pictured next to the loco hauling them. To celebrate, there will be an unmissable programme of events featuring the locomotive on the tracks, visits to heritage railways and lots of Flying Scotsman fun at our museums. I really enjoyed reading all the comments as well. My dad took me out of school to see it, when it was touring the U.S. forty years ago, because it was so famous. Flying Scotsman | National Railway Museum From what I can see she never had fully lined wheels while an LNER loco..would I be correct in thinking that she gained the black and white lining onlt when Pegler took her into private ownership? As the pitch was next to the station, when FS left the station, the referee stopped the game and we all watched it go by. As for alleged confusion with the train what was/is the name of the train: Which bit of history is proper and which is not? It would have been around 1934 as my mum was only a baby. Blue and gray https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/16436358358. I grew up as a child in the 70s and will always think of LNER 4472 in Apple Green and not BR 60103 in Brunswick Green as the iconic Flying Scotsman. I used to go train spotting in the 1940s. On 30 November 1934, Flying Scotsman became the first steam locomotive to reach the officially authenticated speed of 100mph (161km/h),[10][11] while hauling a light test train between Leeds and London, and the publicity-conscious LNER made much of the fact. To comply with local railway regulations, it was fitted with a cowcatcher, bell, buckeye couplers, American-style whistle, air brakes, and high-intensity headlamp. While in Australiain 1989 it also set a new record for the longest non-stop run by a steam locomotive at 422 miles. I live in Sydney, Australia and we have a similar problem here with our ex-trams. In fairness, the A3, with German deflectors and the double tender, finished off in Brunswick, looks very business-like. This photograph is from the report of the run in the LNER magazine. I so agree with you michael, but in my opinion i still think it should be restored as close as possible to its original form and not being mislead. It also found that management lacked the experience, continuity or resources to undertake such a complex task. Unfortunately, this reduced the locomotive's performance. I've a feeling that the tender now fitted to 60009 Union Of South Africa was originally the one off the Hush Hush/W1. This is because there are no water troughs available on the modern lines for her to fill up with - but she doesn't need the large coal load as she won't have so many long distance non-stop runs to make. It changed hands between steam preservation enthusiasts before becoming a working exhibit at the National Railway Museum in York in 2004. [84][85] After it was restored to match its appearance in 1963, Flying Scotsman returned to London King's Cross on 25 February, with a run to York. [54], In October 1988, Flying Scotsman arrived in Australia to take part in the country's bicentenary celebrations as a central attraction in the Aus Steam '88 festival. It was James May's personal childhood model and was chosen by him to complete a world record for the longest model railway. [70][71], In 2002, Marchington proposed a business plan which included the construction of a Flying Scotsman Village in Edinburgh, to create revenue from associated branding.
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